Behind a Smile with Dr. Shauntel Ambrose
I host a podcast that shares the secrets behind some of the most resilient healthcare businesses worldwide, innovative products, savvy strategies and daily inspiration to reach your ultimate in your healthcare career. I interview the movers and shakers of healthcare who courageously push boundaries. Whether you a start-up, or needing a push to keep going or a family business or looking for mentorship without the business know-how. This is an all-inclusive, keeping it real, not for the faint-hearted, haters or the nay-sayers live your best life as a member of a global community in healthcare podcast!
Behind a Smile with Dr. Shauntel Ambrose
Anesthetic Mastery and Emotional Resilience in Dentistry with Dr. Celeste Houston
Join me as I sit down with the extraordinary Dr. Celeste Houston, who shares her journey from a conservative upbringing in Durban to becoming a specialist anesthesiologist with a special interest in cardiac and vascular anesthesia.
Dr. Houston shares the pivotal moments that fueled her career, including her time. Discover how she balances her demanding professional life with her family, navigating the challenges of both public and private practice while maintaining a steadfast commitment to patient care and safety.
Our conversation takes a closer look at the intricacies of dental anesthesia, an often-overlooked aspect of the field that carries significant risks. By sharing experiences from both private practice and pediatric settings, we highlight the complexities of managing anxious patients and complex surgeries. The importance of empathy, teamwork, and meticulous schedule management becomes evident as we explore the potential complications that can arise, emphasizing the need for heightened preparedness and awareness in ensuring patient safety and successful outcomes.
In a candid exchange, we reflect on the emotional resilience essential for healthcare professionals, focusing on the dynamics between anesthetists and dentists. Through personal stories and professional insights, we discuss the significance of respecting protocols and preferences to foster a harmonious work environment. Dr. Houston and I also delve into the pursuit of work-life balance in the medical field, sharing our journeys and encouraging listeners to pursue their dreams with dedication and perseverance, reminding them that everyone's path is unique and achievable.
Hello and welcome to Behind a Smile. I am Dr Chantal Ambrose and I am a dentist. I host a healthcare business podcast where I interview healthcare practitioners around the world, sharing tips on how to improve your healthcare practice, innovate and grow, while living your best life. We share products and information from healthcare partners that can help you in your practice journey, be it a startup, a family-based business or a multidisciplinary healthcare team. Most of the information provided here is based on personal experience and opinions, so please supplement what you learn here with approved research studies and professional advice. Thank you to everyone who has subscribed and I invite you to join our community. If you haven't, we would love to hear from you. If you would like to be on the show, drop me a mail at behindasmile2 at gmailcom. Let's make it happen together. So hi everyone. It's Dr Ambrose and I am speaking to Dr Celeste Houston today. Welcome, celeste.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:Now listen. Your background is quite amped, almost like every woman that I've had on this women's special, so let me just share it with our listeners. So you're a specialist anesthesiologist currently working in private practice, with a special interest in cardiac and vascular anesthesia. So you hold an undergraduate qualification from UCT anesthesia. So you hold an undergraduate qualification from UCT and you have a specialist qualification from the College of Anesthesiology and Critical Care of South Africa, as well as Masters of Medicine from UKZN. So you are a wife and you're a mom to a three-year-old, and you're particularly passionate about a work-home life balance now that you are a family lady as well as a specialist, as well as all of the other things that we're going to be talking about. So I'm really excited to have you on. Welcome. And how on earth did you get to where you are right now? Can you tell us a little bit about your journey? Did you get?
Speaker 2:to where you are right now. Can you tell us a little bit about your journey? Thanks so much, chantal, for that question. So my journey is actually a little bit of a crazy one. I come from Durban, from a super conservative family who never dreamed that their little girls' dreams were as big as they were. So my parents were convinced that I was going to go to the local university down the road, as was I, and one day a gentleman came to our school from the University of Cape Town Medical School and he did a little presentation and he dropped off these application forms. Now this is I'm going to give away my age here, but this was 2005. So we were still very paper-based and post-based and I picked up this application, read through it and I decided all on my own that I was going to go to medical school in Cape Town. I filled it in without my parents knowing and I walked across the road from school one day after school, dropped it in the post box and off my application went, and then my dad got the letter that he had to pay an acceptance. They were terribly shocked, completely anxious. My dad had never been on an aeroplane before in his life, jumped in the aeroplane, went to Cape Town, had a look at the place.
Speaker 2:Twelve months later I was enrolled at the University of Cape Town, which was where I did my undergraduate qualification. My very anxious parents phoned me every single night to make sure that I was safe and. But they trusted me and they trusted in me and, through some great feats and lengths, managed to pay those fees and get me to medical school. And I think that's probably the biggest start of my journey towards becoming an anesthetist, because I think if that little moment didn't happen for me, my entire trajectory would have been completely different. So I went to medical school in Cape Town and went through all the rotations, thoroughly enjoyed both my surgical and anesthetic rotations, and I knew that I wanted to be in theater. That was where I was heading towards, but I was very undecided. That I wanted to be in theatre, that was where I was heading towards, but I was very undecided.
Speaker 2:And then, when I did my internship under the guidance of my seniors, I realized that anesthesia is a very applied physical science and chemistry-based profession, and that just sparked my interest. It was like the light bulbs had come on again. I felt like I was back there enjoying my physical science and math subjects again, and I wanted to do this. So at the end of internship I was very fortunate to have been placed at RK Kahn Hospital in Durban, which was one of the centers accredited to do a diploma of anesthesia. So I spent six months of my comp serve in the anesthetic department and then wrote my diploma. The diploma of anesthesia is a prerequisite for anybody aspiring to do anaesthetics, so you have to have a diploma before you're able to enroll for the fellowship.
Speaker 2:Competition in KZN for post is a little bit tight. It always has been historically, especially for anaesthetics. So we generally spend a year as a medical officer, sometimes two, and you obtain your part one exams, which is what I did, and then I went on to do my fellowship. So I spent four years studying at the UK Zed-In, predominantly at the beautiful Nkosi Albert Lutuli Hospital, but also rotating through the other hospitals of KZN. I absolutely loved it.
Speaker 2:I knew that this is where I wanted to be and I'd made the right decision, wrote my exams and passed, thank goodness, and yeah. And then I went on to be a consultant for two years at Inclusive Alberta Tule Hospital, specifically spending most of my time in cardiac and vascular. And then, yeah, the light bulb just came on for me that I wanted to start a family, something I had never thought about before. And once Jude was born, in a desperate search to spend more time with him, I made the leap to private practice so that I would be able to just define my work hours and dictate my time a little bit. And I was very fortunate that a vascular surgeon two very lovely vascular surgeons trusted me enough to allow me to work with them, and so I get to do my passion, which is vascular anesthesia and my BMOM. So, yeah, that's really worked out, fortunately for me. But that's the journey to where I am right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, if this journey didn't happen, what were you thinking was going to go your way? What was going to be your alternative?
Speaker 2:So it's very funny because I had, like, if you looked at my application form for the local universities, it was clear that I only wanted to do one thing and then I had no idea what, what was going on in the end. So I had I had medicine at the top and then I was like, what else can I do? Okay, let's do business science, okay. And then the next thing is like sports science. I was all over the place for the rest of that application form Because genuinely, what I really wanted to do was help people and be a doctor, like. My mom still has a little video clip of me when I was about four years old and I've got all the teddy bears lined up and I'm busy playing doctor.
Speaker 1:So you knew there was just an intuition about it all along. Thank you for sharing that with us. That actually gives you for sharing that with us. That actually gives you an idea that I think speciality almost sort of finds you. You know, everyone that I speak to almost has this journey, but almost the journey finds you. It's one of those things where it seems as though we have lives that are mapped out. Even though you have an idea where you're going, there seems to be a mapped out position for you and as you specialize, it becomes a little bit more definite the path that you're going on. I know that you really have gotten to this point where vascular anesthesiology is what I'm guessing is not the easiest thing to do. Now tell me what your hours are like. How on earth are you fitting in family life with this kind of super speciality?
Speaker 2:It's tough. I sought advice from those who have gone before me and, honestly, the biggest thing that I learned is that you have to have your boundaries. So I knew what I wanted. I knew that I wanted to be present for my son, but I also knew that I'd have to make massive sacrifices to be able to do that. So when I'm there, the hours are quite challenging and some might say insane. We've started at eight o'clock and worked till eight o'clock the next morning on many, many, many occasions. That's actually, yeah, that's the norm, and the abnormal is finishing at 9, 10 at night. But I only do that for a limited number of days a week and on the days when I'm not there.
Speaker 2:I've accepted that those are non-income days, non-academic growth days, that they contribute to my horizontal wealth, which I believe is way more important than your vertical wealth, and that's watching your children grow up, being there for them, being able to do pickup at school, even if it's just two days a week or one day a week. And yeah, you know that ice cream after school, it makes the world, it means the world to a three-year-old. So it's been. I won't say it's something that came easily, because in the beginning, in private practice, you're darting between hospitals, you're trying to get as much work as you can, you're trying to find your feet and it's taken me two years to get to where I am, where I can say now that I've got a good rhythm that suits our family life, that suits my academic needs and my want to like. I say, like you say, do the hard stuff and you know, essentially find that groove that works for us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, that's fascinating because you know, as dentists, what happens with us is that general anesthetic happens in these bits and we find that there's only a few of us that are constantly in theater and they generally are the specialists. But as generalists, we have complex cases, or we'll have special needs, or we'll have orthognathic surgery or we'll have pediatrics. I do a lot of peds. You know it can get quite taxing because we find that when we are needing to work as a team at large, find that when we are needing to work as a team at large, you know, we become quite used to our own rooms, our own style of working, our own teams. And now, when we're extending past that point, I think that some days are better than others. Some cases are more.
Speaker 1:I often have had the experience where you know I'm just waiting and we've booked for eight o'clock, but I'm waiting and we get moved along. We get moved because no one really dies of a toothache Celeste, that's what I'm told. Nobody dies of a toothache. And it's frustrating. You get into this moment where you're thinking to yourself how much longer do you have to wait, especially when you're seeing peds? But what are your experiences around dental cases and do you have any specific common adverse drug effects or complications that often come up?
Speaker 2:So just to address the first part of your question or your commentary, you know nobody does die of a toothache, but at the end of the day, a patient who's coming to theatre on that particular day is the end of the day. A patient who's coming to theatre on that particular day is probably one of the scariest and possibly worst days of their lives so far. To that point and I think we have to have an appreciation for that as medical professionals because while we're waiting or we're getting irritable because our slate's not moving along and we've got our time pressure and things like that For our patients it is one of the most harrowing experiences to be told you're going to be done at 10 o'clock and 1 o'clock they're still sitting and waiting to be done. So while you never die of a toothache, it's still extremely stressful for our patients who are waiting, and especially when it comes to pediatrics, I'm sure you know it's like the starvation times parents are getting anxious, kids are getting anxious, and it can be. It actually is a big deal. So the delays do actually matter to both us and to them. So, yeah, I think the toothache is a big deal and I think we have to get to it quickly. So I don't do dental anesthesia too often but I do help out occasionally when colleagues require assistance for dental cases For me personally.
Speaker 2:I know you say vascular anesthesia might be scary, but dental anesthesia is just as scary for me. I think it's an area that's taken rather lightly because there's the option of the local anesthetic in the room. So a lot of people think you know, I'm just going to get my tooth out, it's just an extraction, it's not a big deal. But the cases that come to theater are generally going to be your pediatric cases, your kitties who might have underlying conditions, your kitties who are coming for heart surgery in two months time and need their teeth extracted before, or kiddies who are coming for heart surgery in two months' time and need their teeth extracted before. You're rather sick patients or patients who are not able to tolerate lying still for whatever reason. They may have a mental health issue or a physical disability that doesn't allow them to.
Speaker 2:I think if we're not aware of these things and if they're not taken with the seriousness that they deserve, dental anesthesia is an area that can spiral out of control and go horribly wrong very quickly and the consequences are devastating, I think for sure, for me the most harrowing consequence or thing that could go wrong is essentially a complicated airway. You've got a shared airway space, our endotracheal tube. Once it's in, we want to strap it with the tape off, never ending, never coming off and into the dentist and whoop off the tape comes up because you need taxes. You know it's a, it's a, it's two opposing personalities and needs coming at each other there. Um, that you have to be very aware of.
Speaker 2:So I for me, I think definitely that airway is my biggest concern and either not just losing airway but also contaminating an airway and all the complications that come with instrumentation of the airway because it's a shared space and a shared working environment, I think would be the top of my priorities. Look, there are obviously other issues that come up. I think local anesthetic toxicity is also a scary one. Use of a dental syringe for injection of local anesthetic is rather rare, but it can happen where we have an intravascular injection of a local anesthetic and in a little kid the dose might be just too much and it can cause an issue. So that would probably be my scariest adverse drug reactions or incidences that could happen during dental anesthesia that I'm always on high alert for.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, listen, I think when I see kids and I go into theater and I you know, I think it's a humbling experience, les, because what happens is that we're doing kids in our dental chairs every day, and when we go into theater we almost feel that, you know, we are separate from the theater because, remember, you guys are there in and out.
Speaker 1:I mean, we are leaving with our patients, you guys are staying in. So I think there's a lot to be said for the expertise that anesthetists can share and you know, when you get into a team, for me there's just a group of anesthetists that I use, simply because of the way they manage children and special needs. Children are not the easiest to manage. Sometimes you can't get a good airway, sometimes it takes a lot of time and there's significant dental care to be done over a very short period of time. So there's the significant time pressure that you know. You're not working under that type of workload in your own room. So do you have any tips, any tips that you can give to us as dentists where we can manage our patients a little bit better when they're getting to general anesthetic?
Speaker 2:So I think already you've touched on the fact that you've got a good team of anesthetists that you work well with and that's like key. So communication, communication, communication. So I think being able to speak to the person who's going to do the anesthetic beforehand and give them some sort of insight Because, remember, your patient sees you many times before we have to see them that morning of anesthesia you have a rapport with the parents, you have a relationship with the child, you have a trusting relationship with the parents. You have a relationship with the child. You have a trusting relationship with the child and you have an opportunity to know more about their health status than just what's happening in their mouth. So I think if you've taken the time to find out their background, medical history and things like that, it's always good to transfer that information on to the anesthesiologist ahead of time so that they're able to plan the safest, best way to get that patient through the anesthetic. I think having a good plan ahead of time, especially with the difficult cases, I know it takes time, but that surgical pause is so important when we just take that minute to say what are we doing, why are we here, what are the risk factors and what are the things that can go wrong and what are we doing in case something goes wrong, just as a team, so that everybody in the theater is on board, they understand that this is the case at hand and what to do in the event of an emergency. I think, obviously, having that respect and understanding for your colleagues, understanding that we're not just there to cancel the patients, even though that's the reputation and needs that us have we actually do want to get the work done and we do want to get our patients safely through the day. But mostly the most important thing is patient safety. I think, yeah, and as long as we have the communication that you know, this is what's safest for the patient, that you can't go wrong and you can't make mistakes if you've taken the time to put those steps in place.
Speaker 2:And then, on a very practical note, I mean there's the general stuff Starvation guidelines must be adhered to. Oftentimes parents think you can just slip in a little bit of, you know, a little sip of milk. My baby was hungry. I gave him something to eat. It's extremely dangerous, especially when it comes to managing the airway.
Speaker 2:And I think, just reiterating to your patients your anesthetist is not, you know being difficult.
Speaker 2:They're doing it because it's for your patient safety, as I said, because you have that longer standing rapport with your patients and they may be parents especially they may be a little bit more trusting towards you and they do, you know, hear their longer standing professional more than they do with the anesthetist.
Speaker 2:So, just yeah, adhering to starvation guidelines, making sure our patients get pre-med medicated if it's indicated and necessary, it helps with the anxiety through the day, through the I mean through the anesthetic process for them. And then, yeah, like I always say to my patients especially, listen to your health care provider, trust your health care provider, do your research for your own self-empowerment, but don't over-research, because not everything on the Internet is applicable to you. The door must always be open to ask questions. So if a parent is unsure or a patient is unsure, especially if the child is old enough to ask, I'm 100% advocate for them to speak and say what are you going to do to me, how are you going to do it? What can I have it some a different way and to respect that individual's needs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, listen, I appreciate that because I think that in my career it's been 20 years. I've been in dentistry this year and I think to myself that I've had good teams and I've not had the best experiences sometimes where you know you'll choose an anesthetist and then there'll be somebody that falls in for you and you know now you're booked like a very special case that you really need somebody that likes to deal with children, case that you really need somebody that likes to deal with children. And I mean, let's just be fair. You know, no matter what speciality we do in healthcare, there are days that are harder than others and there are days that some people just don't like dealing with kids and there are people who just like dealing with kids. And then even those people who like dealing with kids have good days and bad days. In all of the experience that I've had, I've had good days, I've had bad days.
Speaker 1:Listen, communication gone wrong. Let's talk a little bit about pet hates and you know how do we get it wrong. You know you may see us as just that. You know that infrequent person that's coming in and out of theater and you know doing the case Especially. I mean you're in another super speciality. You're not doing dental all the time. So when you do see any dental specialists and when you do see dental practitioners, what are we needing to actually pay a little bit more attention to? And if we do it? If we do it, then you know, the chances are that we may actually have a little bit more of a positive feel or vibe in the theater. So what tips can you give to practitioners now? Where, in your experience, that if we paid a little bit more attention to certain things, what would that be?
Speaker 2:Don't touch the anesthetist's earwax. No, I'm joking. No, you see, it's a shared surgical space. We're going to stand on each other's toes. We're going to do things, certain ways that we don't get along with, or we don't agree with, or we don't feel is the best. You know the best for that particular scenario. I like to take the throat pack out myself. The dentist might want to take the third pack out themselves. I sleep better at night when I've seen it come out myself. So just these little Such a critical thing.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes. I think it's a nice respectful thing to ask Listen, do you want me to take the third pack out, because I've had many anesthetists that say, no, I will do it, it's just part of my protocol. I'm going to be doing it and you know you just respect that space and you finish up, you clean it up and you know you're both noted in your notes that you know throat pack is out. So yeah, I get that.
Speaker 2:I think also. I mean, you can't hide the fact that anesthetists will have slightly pedantic personalities. It comes from the nature of our profession. We will always over-prepare, catastrophize, make sure that we've got plan A, b and C for such catastrophe, and then check Instagram when nothing goes wrong, because that's the nature of who we are. We definitely we're trained to prepare for the disaster and to feel quite happy that we were proven wrong and nothing's gone wrong.
Speaker 2:So I think just that respect for that position that your anesthetist is coming in with they're not over-exaggerating, they've seen things go wrong and so they're planning to make sure that it doesn't happen to your patient.
Speaker 2:And if something doesn't happen to your patient, we've done our job as a team together for that patient. So I think that like just that understanding and just, you know, almost want to say grace, just giving each other grace and same. Similarly, as you said, we have bad days, we have good days and if you have a nurse who might be a little bit irritable, you never know what's happened on her way to work or at home before she got there. And so just that grace for our colleagues together, I think just allows for just a more pleasant, peaceful working environment which always results in better outcomes. And then, even if things go wrong, you can rest your head on your pillow knowing that we had prepared and we tried our best and we had everything we needed, but it still went wrong and it was out of our control. And I think really for me that comes just that like, as I said, that communication is so key and that understanding of each other's dynamics and needs.
Speaker 1:It definitely just translates into a better work environment for everyone and so it almost goes like clockwork when you work well with somebody, because they know your habits and you know their habits and it's an equally respectful environment and people are taking accountability both ways. Common with dentists is that we are really quite tied A personalities. You know we're crossing T's and dotting I's a lot and it's just the nature of how the job works because unfortunately we don't have a lot of room for error in either of our jobs. So you know, in many ways it makes it really a fantastic place to be. You know there are days where you come out and you just feel like you've accomplished a lot more and patients are just so happy with what you were able to do, even though you're just doing your job. You know you feel like you're doing much more than your job sometimes and it's a lovely day when that happens. Of course, when complications happen and you didn't expect them, it's really difficult to have to explain that to patients. So you know it's getting that communication right, knowing that each of us have a role and a level of accountability and respect to actually give in order to collaborate at that maximum level.
Speaker 1:Now we've had a lot of challenges. I can remember during COVID times where we had to go into theater and one of the staff members were positive and there was a whole lot of pandemonium going on in theater and we had a child in already booked, and you know there are lots of things that just happen and we now have complications and we have to deal with them. So, on the challenging days, how have you been able to overcome them and what sort of advice would you give to somebody? Because you guys are you're aiming towards plan A and plan B and plan C and most of us are just stopping at plan B. You know it would be a fantastic sort of I think you'd have a lot of advice to give to somebody. How are you overcoming your challenges? You're speaking to somebody that's had a complication. You're still keeping a positive vibe about you to get into the next patient. How are you doing all of this?
Speaker 2:You know, I think at the very end of the spectrum, possibly the hardest thing and probably the example I'm going to use for an anesthetist would be to lose a patient. Our patients are generally there to wake up healthily at the end of their surgery and it is a devastating feeling having to lose a patient on table or during a surgery. And I think that there's two major categories that you really have to define for yourself as any medical professional when it comes to this kind of thing, and that's the objective side of it, and then the emotion, or the emotive side of it. I think from an objective point of view, it's extremely critical that we run our plays and we check our own selves and we have colleagues check ourselves why we have morbidity and mortality meetings where we can make sure that you know we did things as best we could and if we haven't done things as best we could, it's not a blame game, but it's an opportunity to improve yourself and grow as a professional and to do better for your next patient. We're human, we make mistakes. We may not have seen something or known something about a patient that may have cost them an adverse event, sometimes like an allergic drug reaction, that's completely out of your control, if the patient had never been exposed to that drug before. But how you managed it you know. Did you call for help? Did you get assistance? All that you know your blow-by-blow plays. If you run them and you make sure that you've done what's your best and if you haven't, you can learn from it.
Speaker 2:I think it makes dealing with the emotive component so much easier. And then, with the emotive component, I always say you have to allow yourself to be human. It is okay to mourn the loss of a patient even if you did not know that person, because it is a devastating thing to happen in our careers and I think people don't give themselves that opportunity and that space to just feel for somebody else and to feel for yourself. I mean, I know it sounds like feeling sorry for yourself, but really you are and you should, because you're going through something that is heavy. I mean, you've taken a patient away from a family and then returned them nothing and that is a big thing for us. And I think, especially like in dental anesthesia, I mean, or dental work, like, as you say, nobody's died from a toothache, but you really, if something goes wrong, it's devastating for that family. So allowing yourself to feel that pain and that grief and heal from it only comes from actually giving yourself that grace and space to experience things like loss, and so that's for me that is ideal, with those very challenging scenarios, and I think it can be applied to just about anything.
Speaker 2:I was pregnant in the thick of COVID and I was feeling very sorry for myself because I had this precious pregnancy. We had finally gotten to viability and into a virus that we know absolutely poco about and how we're supposed to swim in this, and, of course, anesthetists were front-facing. We were right there and dealing with that, that that set of okay. So, objectively, what am I going to do to protect myself? I'm going to put on my PPE and pedantically wash my hands and xyz, and then just emotively it's okay to cry too, because you're stressed and you're concerned and you're worried and your friends are losing family members and all these, you know, all these emotions are going around and just allowing yourself to feel this and, of course, you're hormonal because you're pregnant. So, you know, just allowing myself to just go through those emotions and run those blows and just feel and hurt when I needed to.
Speaker 2:Emotions and run those blows and just feel and hurt when I needed to, and just, I think that's for me a huge thing because I feel in healthcare we have such a barrier up and, especially as women in a fairly male dominated profession, we feel like we have to be the tough guys.
Speaker 2:We have to put up these tough faces because if you don't, some big guy is going to shout at you. You're going to, you know it's going to ruin your day and it's going to throw you off, and so we, we come in with our god, yay, hi. And it takes everything to break that down and actually feel for your patients and for yourself and for your colleagues, because we feel like as soon as we open the door, then suddenly we're just, you know, the emotional woman who's and that, and that's not it. We're strong and our weakness is our strengths, our compassion is our strengths, our ability to feel for others is a strength. It's probably the strongest quality we have, and so I think that's like it's a big factor for me that allowing myself to just feel and feel for others and allowing others to also express. You know, at the end of a case when we have lost a patient, we often do something called a huddle. We just go around the room and allow people to just say, like you know, are you okay, how are you feeling?
Speaker 1:And it's so important for that, that just that moment of sort of to just let our guards down and feel because yeah, you know, listen, thank you for sharing that with us, because I think that a lot of people don't don't share that aspect of how vulnerable you are, even though you are doing this job where you know it's your job to actually just make sure that that patient is breathing by the time they come out. You know, and it is huge to accomplish, especially given the fact that you know there are things within your control and then there are things that are not. I think that not many people would, you know, touch on the basis of really what that loss feels like. And you know where we most of us are working towards just getting everything right. I don't think anyone goes into work and think, you know, and thinks that, oh, we're going to just half do our job today because it's just not a possibility, it's a fail. 50% is a fail.
Speaker 1:You know it's really a vulnerable place to be and to have to show your vulnerability when things do go wrong and when there is something as significant as the loss of your patient, and your team's tried their best and you know, against all odds it's just not gone their way, you know. And to take that with you and then you know to also now pick your spirits up to go to the next case is also. It requires a huge amount of courage. But we also recognize that when people show themselves as trying their best and being human and still communicate, you know that they are in that moment with that family, and just to feel that for a second and just to acknowledge that that it goes a long way in a patient actually remembering you as one of the people that helped them through some of the most difficult moments of their lives.
Speaker 1:Because I don't think we can take for granted that often a person, when they reach any point in theater, that it's often not something that they're wanting to do, it's something that they're having to do and that in itself is scary. So you know, you're almost that ambassador, that person that is able to do a hand-holding ceremony for every single person that goes on that table. So those are big shoes to fill and I think you do that very well. You're going to achieve your life goals. Now, what advice can you give to someone that is starting off their career in healthcare and is thinking that this is just such an overwhelming queue. How am I even going to accomplish anything within that? How do you set those goals for where you want to be in life.
Speaker 2:I remember being a medical student and looking at a consultant and thinking, my goodness, when will I ever get there? Like that's not something. I'm never going to be that person. I'm going to be a medical student forever. I'm never going to get there. But how do you eat the elephant? One bite at a time.
Speaker 2:And honestly, I think that in healthcare, because of the nature of the people who have chosen these professions, there's always this drive to be the next best thing, not focusing on the fact that what you're doing right now is good enough for your time and for your journey. No, two people's journey is going to be the same. Not everybody is going to just tick off the exams one after the other. Some people have families in between, some people have tragedies in between, and that's really okay, because as long as you know what your goals and your priorities are, it doesn't matter how you get there. This isn't a competition, even though it's a bunch of fairly competitive people. I really think that we need to appreciate that our journeys are all different and we all have different things and different roles to play in life. So that for me would really. If somebody had told me that when I was an intern, I would have felt a lot more that becoming a consultant one day was a lot more achievable. I wouldn't have felt like it was this distant. You know far money shot. You know like maybe one day, if I get things right, I wish someone had told me that it will come and it will come in the time. That's right for you, as long as you keep your priorities right, work hard, stay dedicated and make sure that you do what is expected of you.
Speaker 2:And for me, I think my journey was you know, I did it where I put all my academics first and then I started a family.
Speaker 2:And I look at other colleagues who started their families earlier and I think, wow, they had so much more time with their children all these years, and now that I have one, I mean I'm almost envious. Similarly, they look at you and think Celeste did it the right way because she got all her exams out the way first and then she had a baby and now she can focus on her family. So we all think that what the others have is the better option. But ultimately, what you have and what you're doing is the best option for you, and so you're doing what you know the best you can, a very difficult, very challenging world, and as long as you keep your end point in focus, it doesn't matter if the journey is a little bit windy, and definitely stop and enjoy the views along the way, because this is the life we're living. There's no saving up for the next one. It's all here and it's all now.
Speaker 1:I mean listen well. Well, thank you, Because I think that was such a lovely, positive interview and something that we can really take home for this month are really valuable to some of our listeners. So thanks so much.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me. It really is an honor to even be chosen for something like this or included in such a special podcast, and especially at this time. I hope that if there are any young listeners out there that they really take from this that you can do it and you can achieve great things.
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